qui connait Van Straelen ?

This mornig I went to the Modena Library: I've read again on "L'Audace" the story "Il Lago dorato". I've made it to try - if it's possible- to understand why this story stopped suddendly without go on with t its natural following "Le perle del mare d'Oman": story, this one, which Caesar had already drawn some pages.
Well, I think the "Audace" editor was in harry to start with another story much more in line with what it did happen at the same time in Europe, that's the first sounds about the war signals.
Germay got his hands over Cecoslovachy and did prepare the Polland invasion.
So Caesar, went starting on number 302, began the story "Aviazione e fascismo", which appeared on first page of the journal itself.
Naturally, this is only my opinion. Let's everybody tells what he's thinking about.

About the difference of the beginning between "Lago Dorato" et "Lac Doré", I believe in the Cahier d'ulysse and Odyssée edition the first page(s) came from "Dino e Dario gli eroi dell’aria". The first page shows Will Sparrow and Mark Park escaping. At the beginning of "Lago Dorato" in l'AUdace they have already escaped if I understand well.

Yes, I believe it's so!
But I'd like to speak about the cause of the end of the Will Sparrow adventures on le journal "L'Audace". I know the italian situation in 1940 was very different confronting what went on in the same time in France and Belgium, but the knowledge of historical contexst is basic if somebody desire to learn about the comics meaning .

@Tomaso: I think you are basically right about the constant changes in editorial structure on the pages of "L’Audace", but I also think that not only the war climate, but the continual change of property, influenced this. Fabio hasn’t posted all the final pages, but I seem to get L’Audace becomes a Mondadori title during the story. We can ask him, anyway, if we have patience, I think he will be glad to check when he sorts out his comics journals.
How should I formulate our question?

So you are telling me that "Il lago dorato" is an incomplete story?
And then, when reprinted in France (setting aside the difference at the beginning, which may be as arsen hypotizes) is the story also incomplete?
Also, why in the Odysee album reprint the writer is credited as "Cité"? The story is written by Federico Pedrocchi.

piccic a écrit:@Tomaso: I think you are basically right about the constant changes in editorial structure on the pages of "L’Audace", but I also think that not only the war climate, but the continual change of property, influenced this. Fabio hasn’t posted all the final pages, but I seem to get L’Audace becomes a Mondadori title during the story. We can ask him, anyway, if we have patience, I think he will be glad to check when he sorts out his comics journals.
How should I formulate our question?

What I read is that L'Audace became a Mondadori publication at the beginning of 1939. But around number 298 Mondadori was already no longer the publisher. From wxhat I understood, it was quite a real war between the publishers in Italy at the time.

piccic a écrit:So you are telling me that "Il lago dorato" is an incomplete story?
And then, when reprinted in France (setting aside the difference at the beginning, which may be as arsen hypotizes) is the story also incomplete?
Also, why in the Odysee album reprint the writer is credited as "Cité"? The story is written by Federico Pedrocchi.

I notice that too. I think that for this publication the pages were reorganized and that the scenario may have been a bit twisted. I believe they put the name of the translator to point out that J. Away was only responsible for the drawing. Actually "texte" is not equivalent to scenario, it just means the words so Cité is likely only the translator. It is unfair with F. Pedrocchi but maybe they did not have his name at the time and the time was a bit instable (this french version was first published in 1941).

Well, here I'm again!
I've just now looked at what it's told by Gori, Gadducci and Lama into their book "Eccetto Topolino" about "The Audace affair".In the year 1939 the editor Mondadori asked to Aurelio Ga leppini to leave the editor Nerbini, patron of the weekly ebdomadaire "L'Avventuroso", and work for him.
So Galeppini began in drawing the Pedrocchi story "The Oman sea pearls": why Mondadori didn't ask to Caesar to continue in making this same story (
Caesar had already draw two pages, published on "Spirou")? That the question!!!

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Lefranc, Alix, Jhen ... et les autres » Histoire de la bande dessinée » qui connait Van Straelen ?

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tpturchi

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Nombre de messages: 36
Localisation: Modena, Italy
Date d'inscription: 22/01/2014
Well, here I'm again!
I've just now looked at what it's told by Gori, Gadducci and Lama into their book "Eccetto Topolino" about "The Audace affair".In the year 1939 the editor Mondadori asked to Aurelio Ga leppini to leave the editor Nerbini, patron of the weekly ebdomadaire "L'Avventuroso", and work for him.
So Galeppini began in drawing the Pedrocchi story "The Oman sea pearls": why Mondadori didn't ask to Caesar to continue in making this same story (
Caesar had already draw two pages, published on "Spirou")? That the question!!!

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Heu ...    

Tu as fait une fausse manœuvre ?  

Yes, I do.
If you can to cancell my mistake - I'm not able to make it - I thank you in advance.

Well, I've read again the "Galleppini autobiogrphy", Ikon editeur,1989,Milano.
Galep writes about the collaboration with Pedrocchi/ Mondadori in 1938: the first storywhich he drawn was "Jean Marie le mousse for The editor Civita in Buenos Aires In Argentina( this story was published en France after war on "Robinson). The second story Galep did draw was " Le perle del mare di Oman!!! Story never really conclused because in June 1940 the war sent Galep far from home.
And Caesar??? Caesar drew only "Il lago dorato", and the last pages of this story where arbitrarily titled "Les perles del la mer d'Oman" en France. In Italy this pages ( I think 2) where never published.
The mistery end??

tpturchi a écrit:Well, I've read again the "Galleppini autobiogrphy", Ikon editeur,1989,Milano.
Galep writes about the collaboration with Pedrocchi/ Mondadori in 1938: the first storywhich he drawn was "Jean Marie le mousse for The editor Civita in Buenos Aires In Argentina( this story was published en France after war on "Robinson). The second story Galep did draw was " Le perle del mare di Oman!!!  Story never really conclused because in June 1940 the war sent Galep far from home.
And Caesar???  Caesar drew only "Il lago dorato", and the last pages of this story  where arbitrarily titled "Les perles del la mer d'Oman" en France. In Italy this pages ( I think 2) where never published.
The mistery end??

It should be something like that. Maybe one day we will have access to Journal of Spirou archives...

tpturchi a écrit:Bonjour!
                  alors,  dans ces deux albuns il n'y  a pas le character de Willy Sparrow, mais outre trois heroes, deux hommes et une femme  qui s'appelent Cornil, Ernesto et Raimondo.
Je ne connais pas quand cette histoires furent pubblieè en France.

Salutations


Tomaso

PS,
Y a til  quelqueun  qui me peut donner cette informations. Merci in  avance.

I finally found the info: Cornil was a series by Roger Méllies (The one who runs « Aeroport Z » after Van Straelen). There was 4 16 pages comics published in France in Sélections Prouesses from September 1944 and April 1947:
n°23 Cornil - Terreur à Khalinpoor  09/1944

n°37 Cornil - La horde infernale  03/1946

n°40 Cornil - Le diamant de Kali  1946

n°44 Cornil - Prisonniers d'Aruspah  04/1947


I believe « L'Orda Infernale » corresponds to n°23 et 37 while « Giungla... » corresponds to 40 et 44.

Actually there was at least two other Cornil stories by R. Méllies:
"Le Coffre aux Pépites" 12/1948

et
"Les mystères de l'ile du singe" 02/1949


This last one was wrongly presented as being by Van Straelen (and eventually a Will Sparrow's story). It is not. It is a Cornil episode.

Is it would possible to look at some page of one or other of this stories?
I'd be very curios to see as Méllies has drown them.
The two covers seem to me by another hand.

I whish I could but I do not own those. Usually Méllies signs is pages and the two cover images for the last cornil episode in Heroïca are unsigned so it is possible that they were not drawn by Méllies. But at least the first comics is by Méllies (it is still unclear for the second one).

Actually in Albo d'Oro the covers are not by the one who did the comics. The images used for Albo d'Oro Cornil and Will Sparrow were likely not drawn by Méllies (they are unsigned) or Van Straelen (In the case of Il Re Del Tenebre what seems to be used is an enlargment of an image from the comics by Van Straelen and actually this Will Sparrow's face was copied from Caesar Away by Van Straelen and used several times in Will Sparrow's stories). The cover for "Il Sacro Vaso" seems to be signed by V. Maffi.

Hum ! I do have others stories drawn by Melliès during the same years (1946). It was published in the magazine "Hardi les Gars".   

So, if you would like to see some Melliès' works, I can create a new topic dedicated to him, and show you some pages (or even some complete stories).   

Thank you in advance, Raymond!!
I'm so curious about Melliès; I think I never did see anything about him. What a shame!!

The Melliès topic is opened ! You will find it here :

https://lectraymond.forumactif.com/t1142-roger-mellies#51308

Merci beacoup, Raymond!! Now I come back to the Mondadori "albo d'oro"n° 144, 12-2-1949, "La sconfitta di Will Sparrow" ( the cover is by Raffaele Paparella) and the inside by Van Straelen. But i seem to see, in the last page of this story, a light likeness with the Melliès hand: may be it is a simple coincidence. But , generally spaaking, is it possible to think about a collaboration between Van Straelen and Melliès??
What is it told about Melliès into the fanzine which you post the cover??? Anything about Van Straelen/ Melliers collaborations??
Am I out trail in thinking such a thing?? If I look at the mirrow , I see my long donkey ears!!!
I apologise for my digression.

tpturchi a écrit:Merci beacoup, Raymond!! Now I come back to the Mondadori "albo d'oro"n° 144, 12-2-1949, "La sconfitta di Will Sparrow" ( the cover is by Raffaele Paparella) and the inside by Van Straelen. But i seem to see, in the last page of this story, a light likeness  with the  Melliès hand:  may be it is a simple coincidence. But , generally spaaking, is it possible to think about a collaboration between  Van Straelen and Melliès??
What is it told  about Melliès into the fanzine  which you post the cover??? Anything about Van  Straelen/ Melliers collaborations??
Am I out trail in thinking such a thing??  If I look at the mirrow , I see my long donkey ears!!!
I apologise for my digression.

Well, well... It seems possible that Van Straelen and Méllies worked together. But speaking of Van Straelen's style is a bit complex... because as long as I accumulate infos about his work, I realize that Van Straelen uses largely copies of the same drawing several times. And most of the time he copied other's works. I am for example quite convince than all Will Sparrow's and Mark Park's faces are copied from Away. I also found that the same planes are repeated several times...
It seems to me possible that Méllies gives some planes drawing to Van Straelen and that Van Straelen just copy them.

arsen33 a écrit:

piccic a écrit:So you are telling me that "Il lago dorato" is an incomplete story?
And then, when reprinted in France (setting aside the difference at the beginning, which may be as arsen hypotizes) is the story also incomplete?
Also, why in the Odysee album reprint the writer is credited as "Cité"? The story is written by Federico Pedrocchi.

I notice that too. I think that for this publication the pages were reorganized and that the scenario may have been a bit twisted. I believe they put the name of the translator to point out that J. Away was only responsible for the drawing. Actually "texte" is not equivalent to scenario, it just means the words so Cité is likely only the translator. It is unfair with F. Pedrocchi but maybe they did not have his name at the time and the time was a bit instable (this french version was first published in 1941).

I noticed that on Roger Melliès comics Raymond posted, its is typed at the end "Copyright by Cité". Then what is mentionned on the first page of "Le lac doré" - texte : Cité - corresponds to the copyright and nothing else..

Many apologies for not getting back.
In fact, Tomaso is a lot more versed with the matter, but I think he has some difficulties using the forum.

Anyway arsen, if you still care to try to put together a chronology with the data gathered so far, we may try to do so.

Hi Piccic! Welcome back!
Actually I made some progress on Van Straelen's bibliography.
I now know for sure that there was an episode of Will Sparrow called "L'empire du silence" in Zorro hebdo. I also found that the episodes published in hardi les gars were cutted into 2 pieces. Pages were also removed in order for the episode to stay to 12 pages instead of 16 as Van Straelen draws them initially. It seems that the italian version are the same cutted version (the only difference being the coloring and the fact that 2 épisodes in France were glued to make 1 in Italy.

It is clear now that this page:

is the last page of episode 15 "Feux croisés / Le Monde à l'envers" published in Hardi les gars:

Thanks to naz44 from another forum.

Episode 16 is:
"Tempète sur l'Antarctique / Le triomphe de la Justice"
Also in Hardi les gars.

It is still unclear what episode 17 is?

By the way do you have a copy or an access to " IL CROCIATO NERO" from Caesar Away? I was wondering if a horse used by Van Straelen in another of his story may come from this comics.
Here is the image:

The head of this horse was also used in Spirou in 1940.

Apologies for my long disappearance…

arsen33, I have sent you a private message.

Une belle page en couleurs portant le nom de ce dessinateur, à la une de ce périodique...