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qui connait Van Straelen ?

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76 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 30 Jan - 12:20

arsen33


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Raymond a écrit:Bravo ! Je pense que l'on ne peut pas faire plus.   pouce 

Bien oui on peut faire mieux, j'ai trouvé un nouvel épisode. Je pensais bien qu'il y en avait au moins un entre "Le Roi des Ténèbres" et "Gilda l'atomique"...

Here is a correction for Will Sparrow in France from 1942-1949, I found a new title for a Will Sparrow story published in Zorro Hebdo (the follow up to Jeudi Magazine).
- ep. 9 : La cité engloutie (Jeudi Magazine 17/10/1946 au 02/01/1947) Van Straelen
- ep. 10 : Le roi des ténèbres  (Jeudi Magazine puis Zorro Hebdo 02/01/1947 au 20/03/1947) Van Straelen
- ep. 11 : Will Sparrow contre Mark Park (Zorro Hebdo 27/03/1947 au  12/06/1947 date à confirmer) Van Straelen
- ep. 12 : Gilda l'Atomique (Sélection Hardi les Gars n°43 02.10.1947) Van Straelen
- ep. 13 : La course au trésor (Sélection Hardi les Gars n°49 01.01.1948) Van Straelen
- ep. 14 : La défaite de Will Sparrow (Sélection Hardi les Gars n°50 01.02.1948) Van Straelen
- ep. 15 : Tempête sur l'Antarctique  (Hardi les Gars 28.03.1948) Van Straelen
- ep. 16 : De Charybde en Scylla  (Heroïca  01/1949) Van Straelen
- ep. 17 : Les loups se mangent entre eux (Heroïca  03/1949) Van Straelen

77 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 30 Jan - 13:37

tpturchi

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alixophile
alixophile
Well, for the episode of Will Sparrow'adventures "Il lago dorato", it was published on weekly "AUDACE" from n°273/1939 to n°301/1939, for 20 pages ( two colors, 18, b/n.).
This story is the natural follow of the whole published on "Paperino".

78 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 30 Jan - 14:10

arsen33


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tpturchi a écrit:Well, for the episode of Will Sparrow'adventures "Il lago dorato", it was published on weekly "AUDACE" from n°273/1939 to n°301/1939, for 20 pages ( two colors, 18, b/n.).
This story is the natural follow of the whole published on "Paperino".

Many thanks for the info. I'll add this to my files.
If I am not wrong the AUDACE journal was published by a different editor than PAPERINO. Then it could explain why this episode was not reprinted in the Albo d'Oro serie.

79 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 30 Jan - 14:42

tpturchi

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alixophile
alixophile
Arsen, Yes , you are right! I seem to remember that Leonardo Gori in his blog"Fumetti classici" speak abuot this matter.
I think Claudio (Piccic) can contact the blog "Vintage Comic", where there are many things about the journal "Audace", may be pages of "Il Lago dorato" too. Let's hope!

80 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 30 Jan - 16:06

tpturchi

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alixophile
alixophile
Greetings to all .
I'm still in the possession of knowledge that could have people like Donald , but I will try to explain
the glorious head of "L'Audace "with the eyes of one who discovers for the first time a few secrets , and finds confirmation in some things he thought he knew .
"L'Audace" is one of three publications that are in fact the history of comics in Italy .
The other 2 are the "Avventuroso" and "Topolino".

No doubt, between the tree Journal  tested , the one with the most troubled history is The Audace .
The various hardships editorials, they did change over the years in size , setting , characters ...
Do you think that was possetuta and printed by 5 publishers.

For starters , let's take a few data to frame the head . :
The total life of "L'Audace" is from 7th January 1934 to 10 February 1944. ( 467 numbers)
Founder SAEV ( socetà Anonymous Old Publishers ) .
Old printing from # 1 to # 261 . ( The years 1934 to 1938 )
- Small Size by No. 1-34 (1934) .
- Large Size by No. 35-59 (1934 from 35 to 52) (1935 52-59 ) .
- Large format everything from comic No. 60-261 .
( 1935 by No. 60-104 ) ( 1936 by No. 105-156 ) ( 1937 by No. 157-208 ) ( 1938 No. 209-261 ) .

In 1939 , the API ( Anonima Periodici Italiani ) " Mondadori " head detects and possesses only for the 6th year of life.
- Large format all comics from No. 262-297 . (as mentioned in 1939 ) .

SAEV ( socetà Anonymous Publishers Old ) buys back his head and holds it in '39 for only 26 numbers. :
- Large format all comics from No. 298-313 ( closing Vintage 1939) (also 6th year ) .
- Large format all comics from No. 314-324 (Opening of the 7th year , 1940 ) .
L'Audace is detected by IDEA socetà 1940-1941 (Dante Daini )
- Large format all comics from No. 325-329 ( closing Vintage 1940) (7th year).
- Large format all the mere comic # 330 ( Opening of the 8th year , 1941 ) .

In January 1941, an important fact happens .
L'Audace is detected for the last time .
Gian Luigi Bonelli founded the " Editors BOLD ."
On January 18, 1941 published the first comic of what will be the current Bonelli .
- Large format all comics from No. 331-377 ( closing Vintage 1941) (8th year).
- Large format all comics from No. 378-384 (Opening of the 9th year, 1942).
- Small size and horizontal for 4 numbers from No. 385-388 (from February 5, 1942 February 26 1942)
- Format "Register Audace" from No. 389-467 (from March 5, 1942 to 10 February 1944)



Dernière édition par tpturchi le Jeu 30 Jan - 23:37, édité 1 fois

81 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 30 Jan - 19:03

Raymond

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Une petite parenthèse graphique !  Wink 

Voici à quoi ressemblait une page de Bill l'Albatros (=Will Sparrow) dans Spirou en 1941. C'est justement une planche des Perles de la Mer d'Oman, et elle est dessinée par Gallepini



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82 Great work! le Jeu 30 Jan - 23:46

piccic

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alixophile
alixophile
@arsen: Awesome work: that is a great starting point for sure!

As Tomaso said, I can ask Fabio, a collector which owns almost the whole run of «L’Audace» and see if it’s possible to take some pictures of the “Il lago dorato” (“Le lac doré”).

Also, “Dino et Dario gli erio dell'ario” correct title is actually “Dino et Dario gli eroi dell’aria” (Dino e Dario heroes of the air). Very Happy

83 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 30 Jan - 23:54

piccic

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alixophile
alixophile
P.S. Tomaso, be careful when you use automatic translation: it may lead to unpredictable results as far as proper nouns and publishers' names. Smile

SAEV means "Società Anonima Editrice Vecchi” (from the name of its founder, Lotario Vecchi): http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societ%C3%A0_Anonima_Editrice_Vecchi

With issue 331 of «L”Audace» Gian Luigi Bonelli buys the title from Mondadori and becomes a publisher on his own, founding «Redazione Audace», a small publishing house that will form the core of his future publishing house.

(Automatic translators translate "Audace" as "Bold", and the verb indicating the acquisition of the publishing house as "to detect", which are wrong and misleading).

84 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 31 Jan - 7:35

tpturchi

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alixophile
Yes, I know the automatic translation is very often a surrealism masterpiece; But I myself are a surrealism lover, so sometimes I like to leave it like it is.
But, generally speaking, I try to correct it.

85 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 31 Jan - 7:46

tpturchi

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alixophile
alixophile
Raymond, I've something about "Le perle del mare di Oman" on "Topolino, so I can see the first 8 pages from N° 446 to 454 are full color and 23cmX32, after they are only red and black and cm.16X23.
If I could be able to put figures here..... but I don't know how to do. I ,m sorry.

86 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 31 Jan - 10:29

arsen33


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piccic a écrit:Also, “Dino et Dario gli erio dell'ario” correct title is actually “Dino et Dario gli eroi dell’aria” (Dino e Dario heroes of the air).  Very Happy

Sorry about that, I corrected several times but my fingers still insist to type erio instead of eroi and ario instead of aria (and they also can not restraint from typing "et" in french instead of "e" in italian). And it was again the case here... Actually it seems that the name of the serie at that time was "Dino e Dario" and not Will Sparrow.

tpturchi a écrit:If I could be able to put figures here..... but I don't know how to do. I ,m sorry.

When your answering a message, on top you have the following button bar:


You have to click on the button which I circle in green. Then you look to the image you want to send on your hard drive. You choose to resize or not your image (it is better to choose no resize). You will get 3 links. Just copy the last link. Then you go back to your message by clicking in the message frame.

To your image in your message: You click on the button next to the one before. You paste the URL link in the URL box and then click on the insert button.

87 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 31 Jan - 13:25

piccic

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alixophile
alixophile
arsen33 a écrit:
piccic a écrit:Also, “Dino et Dario gli erio dell'ario” correct title is actually “Dino et Dario gli eroi dell’aria” (Dino e Dario heroes of the air).  Very Happy

Sorry about that, I corrected several times but my fingers still insist to type erio instead of eroi and ario instead of aria (and they also can not restraint from typing "et" in french instead of "e" in italian). And it was again the case here... Actually it seems that the name of the serie at that time was "Dino e Dario" and not Will Sparrow.

I made a mistake as well: in italian it’s obviously “Dino e Dario gli eroi dell'aria”, in english ”Dino and Dario heroes of the air”.  Wink 

Here are the scans provided by Tomaso (beautiful colors indeed!):





Dernière édition par piccic le Mar 4 Fév - 18:19, édité 1 fois

88 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 31 Jan - 15:08

arsen33


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Very nice pages. Many thanks. I agree the colours are beautiful.

89 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 31 Jan - 20:51

Raymond

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Yes ! The colours are beautiful, and it's more attractive than the black and white issue in Spirou.  pouce 


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90 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 31 Jan - 22:52

piccic

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alixophile
alixophile
arsen33 a écrit:Le Perle del Mare di Oman (xp - 4s)  Gli Albi dell’AUDACIA 1938-1939 ??? Dessin: Galleppini
Le Perle del Mare di Oman (21p - 4s)  Topolino 1941-42 Dessin: Galleppini
(Are Topolino pages new or are they a reissue of AUDACIA???)

Arsen, do you mean "Albi dell’Audacia" or "L’Audace"? Because they are two very different things (and of two different publishers).
It seems unlikely that you are referring to "Albi dell’Audacia", because they are unrelated to the Audace publishers (SAEV and, later, Mondadori and Bonelli). Also, here’s a complete chronology of that series, and no trace of Will Sparrow:
http://www.lfb.it/fff/fumetto/test/a/audacia_a.htm

As for l’Audace, I have quickly browsed a list of the 1938-39 stories published, and it seems no one is by Galeppini.

91 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Lun 3 Fév - 9:26

arsen33


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piccic a écrit:
arsen33 a écrit:Le Perle del Mare di Oman (xp - 4s)  Gli Albi dell’AUDACIA 1938-1939 ??? Dessin: Galleppini
Le Perle del Mare di Oman (21p - 4s)  Topolino 1941-42 Dessin: Galleppini
(Are Topolino pages new or are they a reissue of AUDACIA???)

Arsen, do you mean "Albi dell’Audacia" or "L’Audace"? Because they are two very different things (and of two different publishers).
It seems unlikely that you are referring to "Albi dell’Audacia", because they are unrelated to the Audace publishers (SAEV and, later, Mondadori and Bonelli). Also, here’s a complete chronology of that series, and no trace of Will Sparrow:
http://www.lfb.it/fff/fumetto/test/a/audacia_a.htm

As for l’Audace, I have quickly browsed a list of the 1938-39 stories published, and it seems no one is by Galeppini.

Well, what seems to be admitted is that Galleppini drawn "Le Perle del Mare d'Oman" for Mondadori.
I read on a site that it was published in "gli albi dell"Audacia" in 1938-39 but I had some doubt about that (so the 3 ?) since I could not find any traces of "Le Perle del Mare d'Oman" in that series. Then I thought that it may have been published in L'Audace in 1939 after "Lago Dorato" publication (but it seems that Mondadori was allready not the publisher for the 3 last L'Audace including "Lago Dorato"...). Could it be possible that Mondadori sold this to Spirou and did not publish it in Italia in 1939/40???
I finally found traces of "El Lago Dorato" in Spirou. This was published as Bill l'Albatros juste after the last page issued from Peperino. It rans from September 7, 1939 to January 18, 1940. Then Spirou switched to "Les perles de la mer d'Oman" by Galleppini.



Dernière édition par arsen33 le Lun 3 Fév - 16:22, édité 1 fois

92 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Lun 3 Fév - 16:18

arsen33


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tpturchi a écrit:Bonjour,
                 connaissez vous combien des planches a dessinèe Corrado Caesar de l'histoire "Les perles de la mer d'Oman"sur "Spirou en l'année 1940??
Tomaselli  dit  moi  que elle etait 2:  est juste aussi??
Merci

I come back on that question. In all Spirou database it is said that "Les Perles ... " starts with the first number of January 1940. I now know that "Il Lago Dorato" was published by Spirou at the end of 1939:
Here is a page from that story (from Robbedoes the flamish version of Spirou):

Note that the page is constructed like "Les perles..." pages with a first case including title and summary while in the previous Will Sparrow's pages, there was a running title on the top of the page.

But if I count well, This story was not finished at the end of 1939. There was still 3 pages to be published. Then I believe that "Les Perles..." do no start with the first number of 1940 but with the fourth number of 1940. This means three pages from "Il Lago Dorato" by Away published in Spirou in 1940. In the journal de Spirou sometime they mixed up the title and some "Les Perles..." were titled "Bill L'Albatros". This add complexity to a very confused publication story.

93 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Lun 3 Fév - 23:05

piccic

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alixophile
alixophile
arsen33 a écrit:This add complexity to a very confused publication story.

Like we needed this…  Shocked
Great job, BTW.  pouce 

Tomaso has problems in logging in to the forum: I have to solve them, but I won’t be able to visit him until a few days… deso

94 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 4 Fév - 13:45

tpturchi

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alixophile
alixophile
All right, I was able -a miracle - to connet again with the forum!!!
Hence, if I have bien entendu, it's not still possible to know how many pages (planches) of "The Oman sea pearls" Corrado Caesar has effectively drawn on "Spirou".
A really mistery!!!

95 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 4 Fév - 14:51

arsen33


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tpturchi a écrit:All right, I was able -a miracle - to connet again with the forum!!!
Hence, if I have bien entendu, it's not  still possible to  know how many pages (planches) of "The Oman sea pearls" Corrado Caesar has effectively drawn  on "Spirou".
A really mistery!!!

Well to resume, there should be 3 pages from "El Lago Dorato" published in Spirou in January 1940. But it seems that they were published under the title "Les Perles de la mer d'Oman", then they might be the pages Tomaselli counted as being by Caesar... or not!!!
The other trouble is that the authors were not mentioned in the Journal, and worse of all the signature was sometimes covered by a blank rectangle... Only an owner of the album 6 of the journal may have the start of an answer. Until recently the only info I had about "Les perles" was that at a time a certain Tallajim was the drawner. But I finally found out that this was a bad reading of one of the signature which was not erazed. And this signature corresponds to Galleppini...

What I do not understand is why the original version in Italian would not have been published at that time (end of 1939 to start of 1940)??? I check some comics database and could not find any reference to such publication.

96 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 4 Fév - 18:03

tpturchi

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alixophile
alixophile
Well, but Tomaselli sent two pages of Bill L'Albatros by Caesar: the story has the title of "Les perles de la Mer d'Oman. I,ve two strips that I send to you with the Help of Piccic.

97 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 4 Fév - 18:29

piccic

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alixophile
alixophile
Well, as we have seen, "Le perle del Mar d’Oman" was published on Topolino in 1941, and the previous episode, "Il lago dorato" was (in 1939-40?) published by l’Audace, so no doubts here…
What needs to be determined is how many pages of "Il lago dorato" appeared on Spirou, and if they correspond to the collected album versions:

The one from 1941 (under the nazist occupation):


And I see this one is a reprint from the mid-1940s:

98 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 4 Fév - 18:51

piccic

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alixophile
alixophile
I will try to update your list later on, arsen.

For now, I have dug out the pictures posted by my acquaintance Fabio (which owns the full run of l’Audace) when he was presenting the title on the Vintage Comics forum.
The first episode of "Il lago dorato" appears on l’Audace n.286 from 1939:

99 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 5 Fév - 16:19

arsen33


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Thanks for the Lago Dorato pages. Actually I found the others images on the vintagecomics forum. The Lago Dorato story itself does not seem to be simple. It starts with n°286 as pages of 5 strips. Then with n°290 it goes to only 4 strips. And in n°298 there is only 3 strips since it is in front of the journal. In n°294 there is 2 pages...
The first page of "Le Lac Doré" in Odysées do not seem to be part of this "Lago Dorato" while the cover of "Le Lac Doré" in cahiers d'ulysse correspond to an image from the 3rd page of Lago Dorato...
The more we goes into that story the more it sounds complexe.

About "Les loups se mangent entre eux", this was published in march 1949. Usually it seems that Albo d'Oro were published almost one year after the french publication. Then I do not think that this is part of "Sconfitta".

100 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 5 Fév - 17:06

tpturchi

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alixophile
alixophile
L'albo d'or0 n°144 "La sconfitta di Will Sparrow" was published on 12 February 1949..
It will be interestig to may see the last page of "Les lous se mangent entre eux".

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