Vous n'êtes pas connecté. Connectez-vous ou enregistrez-vous

qui connait Van Straelen ?

Aller à la page : Précédent  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Suivant

Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Aller en bas  Message [Page 3 sur 5]

51 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Lun 27 Jan - 13:57

arsen33


lecteur émérite
lecteur émérite
I check the data from Journal de Spirou:
Bill l'Albatros - Pirate du Ciel - Journal de Spirou 3/11/38 - 16/03/1939 (20 p - 3s) Dessin : J. Away
Bill l'Albatros - Pirate du Ciel - Journal de Spirou 23/03/39 - 28/12/1939 (31 p - 4s) Dessin : J. Away
There is 7 pages more than what was published in Paperino... But the transition between Pirate et les Perles is not clear in the presentation of the pages. There was no mention of the drawner so it is only a guess that it is J. Away (C. Caesar).

Bill l'Albatros - Les perles de la mer d'Oman - Journal de Spirou 1/01/1940 - 09/05/1940 (19 p - 4s) Dessin: Galleppini
Bill l'Albatros - Les perles de la mer d'Oman - Journal de Spirou 14/11/1940 - 20/03/1941 (19 p - 4s) Dessin: Galleppini
That makes 38 pages for les Perles or eventually (38+7) 45 pages if this started a bit earlier.

Here are some more Van Straelen pages in french:

First page of Le train which should be page 17 of Flagello




First page of Les perles which correspond the first page of Il Sacro Vaso




One page from Tibet as it frist appeared in the journal Jeudi magazine in France.

52 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Lun 27 Jan - 17:29

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
Well, alors," the "Albo d'oro" n°34 "Il pirata del ciel0" has 30 pages (Planches) and any page has five strips, only the last has four strips.
Now I cannot control how is the same story publisced in first edition on the weekly journal "Paperino" in 1937/38 , because this matter is in Biblioteque: may be tomorrow morning I'll go to see.
From the cronology by Antonio Guida (Informavitt 1993) I can say in "Paperino" this story has 44 planches. I suppose the strips are 4 for any page.
I suppose......

53 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Lun 27 Jan - 22:37

piccic

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
Outstanding work, guys!  pouce 

arsen33 a écrit:
First page of Les perles which correspond the first page of Il Sacro Vaso

So, Albi d'Oro n.77 should be "Les perles de la Mer d'Oman"+"Le vase sacré des Dasyous": could you check that one, Tomaso (we already saw "Le vase" begins on page 17)?

I have some "Paperino" issues, but I am 99% sure they contain some episode of "Saturn against the Earth" instead of Will Sparrow…

54 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 28 Jan - 9:37

arsen33


lecteur émérite
lecteur émérite
tpturchi a écrit:Well,  alors," the "Albo d'oro" n°34 "Il pirata del ciel0" has  30 pages (Planches) and any page  has five strips, only the last has four strips.
Now I cannot control how is the same story publisced in first edition on the weekly journal "Paperino" in 1937/38 , because this  matter is in Biblioteque: may be tomorrow morning I'll go to see.
From the cronology by Antonio Guida (Informavitt 1993) I  can say  in "Paperino" this story has 44 planches. I suppose the strips are 4 for any page.
I suppose......

OK In paperino we have 20 planches *3 strips (60 strips) + 24 planches *4 strips (96 strips) which make a total of 156 strips. Eventually the number of strips may be reduced to 154 because of the subtitles for episodes 2 and 3 as they should have appeared in Paperino. It then make 30 planches of 5 strips each + a last planche of 4 strips.
If so from one you say, one page would be missing???

55 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 28 Jan - 10:17

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
This morning the weather is bad: it is snowing thickly, so I can not go to the library!
Now, come us to the passage between Will Sparrow on "Paterino" in comparison to the series" Albi d'oro "by Mondadori , albo d'oro n° 34. In the latter case, the tables have been reconstructed, the strips were cut along its height, usually at the low, something certainly has been deleted. Differences probably arise from this difference in layout.
But to be sure I've to control in the Bibliotheque archives......
This "albo d0r0" n°34 has 29 pages with five strips, and the last, the 30° avec four strips.

56 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 28 Jan - 10:35

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
About the story "Le perle del mare d'Oman," on the "albi d'oro", it starts at No. 75 titled " Il flagello dei mari del sud" and it goes on "Il vaso sacro dei Dasyous.", n°77 . From what I can see the start is similar to the story drawn by Galleppini on "Topolino", but I do not know if in the French edition of Van Straelen there are differences in the plot.
Even in this case I would be to check and make a comparison between the two versions.
Not to mention the first tables designed by Caesar ......

57 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 28 Jan - 10:45

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
I've to be clearest: I don't know if the story of "Le perle del mare d'Oman" on six " Albi d'oro" by Galleppini , is the same which Van Straelen drawn in France/Belgium, before on "Spirou" and after on albuns.
This is because I've not under my eyes the complete french version.

58 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 28 Jan - 10:49

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
Sorry, the snow send me out of mind.
I've mistaked: "the six "Albi d'oro" drawn by Van Straelen: Are they like the french version?"

59 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 28 Jan - 11:42

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile

First of all, it should be specified that the story "Le perle del mare d'Oman" is the natural follow-up to the previous one, "The Golden lake."
In Italy, the story of the pearls etc., etc., begins to "Topolino" from July 1941 preceded only by a brief written summaries, in color and on a large page. Galleppini , on military service near Milano was suddendly transferred, and so he was forced to interrupt the story. All this also due to the entry of Italy into the war.

60 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 28 Jan - 11:55

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile

But was really unfinished the story?. Ahh, I must say that on February 3 1942, on the number of "Topolino" the story continues, also only if in writing kit with only five small illustrations signed Galeppini.
In 1944, the story found its natural conclusion in some albums published by the brothers Pedrocchi, in the comic book series of the "Carro". In fact the whole story was published (only in the north Italia) in three albums in long format , cm.24x33-.

61 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 28 Jan - 12:03

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile

The albums titles are the following: "Il rifugio nella rocca","Il mistero dell'abisso" and "La nave fantasma". On this last album there are three pages more , never see before!!
I think this is really THE ENd of the story

62 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 28 Jan - 20:00

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
I answer now to the question by Piccic :" On the "Albo d'oro n° 75 the story " Le perle del mare d'Oman" which begins there , stop exactely in the middle of the following episode "IL sacro vaso di Dyonisius", albo d'oro n°77.

63 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mar 28 Jan - 20:19

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
I've to repeat because my last post has disappeared ( I think for my fault, ).
On the "Albi d'oro" the story " Le perle del maer d'Oman" begins on the number 75 with the "Il flagello dei mari del sud2 and sto exactly in the middle of the numer 77""Il sacro vaso dei Dasious"
I do ask?? Why on earth MOndadori didn't print in the serie "Albi d'oro" the same story drawn by Galleppini??? And why never printed the previos story"Il lago dorato"by Caesar???'

64 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 29 Jan - 16:00

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
I checked into the Modena library the first version of "Will Sparrow" air pirate, published from the n ° 1 of "Paperino, 1937 till no. 44 of 1938; 44 episodes like 45 plates drawn. I later compared the version in"Albo d'oro "mondadori n ° 34 of 28/12/1946.
The original version on "Paperino" was initially designed in planches divided into three strips, then from numero 21 of May 19, 1938 it begins to have 4 strips per page.
But the number of squares in which each strip is divided is extremely variable: I counted 266.
In further version on "Albo d'0ro", I register each page has 5 rows and the originals squares are sometimes cut into two or more parts.
So, at last there are many more of the original 266 squares : about more than three hundred!

65 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 29 Jan - 16:13

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
This morning I've checked the comics story "I Pirati del Cielo" with Will Sparrow and company, so as it appears in the firsr edition on the weekly "Paperino" 1937/38.
They are 44 numbers journal and 45 dwawn tables.
The first 20 tables have tre strips everyone, the other 24 have four strips. But every strips bas a very different number of squares: all of them are 265.

66 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 29 Jan - 16:19

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
"L'albo d'oro " "I pirati del cielo" , n°34, 27 december 1946, has much more squares, because they where cut for the new pagination , they are more than 300!!!

67 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 29 Jan - 17:34

Raymond

avatar
Admin
tpturchi a écrit:This morning I've checked the comics story "I Pirati del Cielo" with Will Sparrow and company, so as it appears in the firsr edition on the weekly "Paperino" 1937/38.
They are 44 numbers journal and 45 dwawn tables.
The first 20 tables have tre strips everyone, the other 24 have four strips. But every strips bas a very different number of squares:  all of them are 265.
Do you have compared this "Paperino" edition of Will Sparrow with the pages from the comic book which are shown on the "Kurt Caesar" topic ?


_________________
Et toujours ...
http://lectraymond.forumactif.com

68 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 29 Jan - 19:30

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
Yes, I did it this morning, in the comics book archive of LIbrary "Delfini" in Modena.
Between "Paperino" Mondadori 1937 /8 and the "Albo d'oro"mondadori n°34, Dicember 1946 .

69 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 29 Jan - 21:10

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
May be it's better to repeat?
I checked into the library the first version of "Will Sparrow" air pirate published by the n ° 1 of "Donald, 1937 No. 44 of 1938, 44 episodes ecorrispondenti 45 plates drawn, I compared the version with the " Albo d' 0ro "mondadori n ° 34 of 28/12/1946.
The original version was initially designed with tables divided into three strips, then from numero 21 of May 19, 1938 to spend 4 strips per page.
But the number of squares in which each strip is divided drawn is extremely variable: I counted 266. ( let's hope it's right, because I'm just like e mole; Joking apart , I use spectacles!!!)
In following part, one register each page has 5 rows and squares drawn originals are sometimes cut into two parts or more parts.
So in the end there are many more of the original 266: more than three hundred!

70 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 29 Jan - 21:14

tpturchi

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
I fear my english is not enough clear.
Ask me, if you have any doubts!

71 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 29 Jan - 22:50

Raymond

avatar
Admin
No, it seems clear. The main difference is the number of strip in the page, otherwise there's no big change for the repartition of squares into the strips.

In french magazines, the changes are much more considerable. The place and the size of the square change often, and some of them can even disappear.


_________________
Et toujours ...
http://lectraymond.forumactif.com

72 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 29 Jan - 23:08

piccic

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
@Tomaso: Your english is clear enough, but it’s the matter that is quite confusing for me that I am not familiar with it: let’s wait for arsen which is the more learned… Smile

As an advice: there is no need to add a single new post if you are adding informations or considerations in a short time span: you can simply edit by clicking on "editer" in the bottom low corner of each one of your posts.  pouce 

By the way: Raymond was talking of this thread he started for me to talk about Il Vittorioso in general and about Caesar: http://lectraymond.forumactif.com/t1132-kurt-caesar-et-le-vittorioso
(Tomaso is not accustomed to forums, he generally posts in blogs, so he has to figure out how they work).

73 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Mer 29 Jan - 23:11

piccic

avatar
alixophile
alixophile
P.S. Maybe counting single "squares" (panels is the right term in english) is not the best way to go: since we don’t know if and how much the stories were edited when reprinted.
Maybe the best thing is an overall evaluation like I seem to get arsen was doing, by looking just at the number of panel rows (strisce di vignette).

74 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 30 Jan - 9:44

arsen33


lecteur émérite
lecteur émérite
Well the all this is rather confusing!!!
Here is what I have gone so far:

ITALIA First publication
Il Pirata del Cielo (10p - 3s) Di Paperino 30/12/1937 - 3/03/1938  Dessin: J. Away
Dino et Dario alla caccia di Will Sparrow  (10p - 3s)  Di Paperino 10/03 - 1/05/1938  Dessin: J. Away
Dino et Dario gli erio dell'ario (24p - 4 s)  Di Paperino 19/05 - 27/10/1938  Dessin: J. Away
(What about "Il lago dorato"??? Is it part of "Dino et Dario gli erio dell'ario" or is it something else? And in that case was it published in Italia?)

Le Perle del Mare di Oman (xp - 4s)  Gli Albi dell’AUDACIA 1938-1939 ??? Dessin: Galleppini
Le Perle del Mare di Oman (21p - 4s)  Topolino 1941-42 Dessin: Galleppini
(Are Topolino pages new or are they a reissue of AUDACIA???)

FRANCE First publication
Bill l'Albatros - Pirate du Ciel - Journal de Spirou 3/11/38 - 16/03/1939 (20 p - 3s) Dessin : J. Away
Bill l'Albatros - Pirate du Ciel - Journal de Spirou 23/03/39 - 28/12/1939 (31 p - 4s) Dessin : J. Away
(It is possible that "Les perles" starts in november 1939... since there should be only 24 pages with 4 strips and not 31 pages... Otherwise those 7 additional pages may be "Le lac doré"???)

Bill l'Albatros - Les perles de la mer d'Oman - Journal de Spirou 1/01/1940 - 09/05/1940 (19 p - 4s) Dessin: Galleppini
Bill l'Albatros - Les perles de la mer d'Oman - Journal de Spirou 14/11/1940 - 20/03/1941 (19 p - 4s) Dessin: Galleppini

(Bill L'alabatros Pirate de l'Air was reissued in Journal de Toto in 1939)

FRANCE Reissue + Redrawing + Follow-up?
- ep. 1 : Les pirates du ciel (Cahiers d'Ulysse  10.04.1941 ; Odyssée  12/1943) J. Away
- ep. 2 : La chasse aux pirates  (C. d'Ulysse  10.09.1941 ; Odyssée  01/1944) J. Away
- ep. 3 : Le lac doré (C. d'Ulysse  10.11.1941 ; Odyssée  02/1944) J. Away
- ep. 4 : Le fléau des mers du sud (Cahiers d'Ulysse  03/1942 ; Odyssée  03/1944) Van Straelen
- ep. 5 : Le train 725 a disparu (Odyssée 06/1945) Van Straelen
- ep. 6 : Les perles de la mer d'Oman  (Odyssée 08/1945) Van Straelen
- ep. 7 : Le vase sacré des Dasyous (Odyssée 06/1946) Van Straelen
- ep. 8 : Les évadés du Tibet (Odyssée 08/1946 ; Jeudi Magazine 25/07/1946 au 10/10/1946) Van Straelen
- ep. 9 : La cité engloutie (Jeudi Magazine 17/10/1946 au 02/01/1947) Van Straelen
- ep. 10 : Le roi des ténèbres  (Jeudi Magazine 02/01/1947 au 20/02/1947 arrêt du journal suite dans Zorro???) Van Straelen
- ep. 11 : Gilda l'Atomique (Sélection Hardi les Gars n°43 02.10.1947) Van Straelen
- ep. 12 : La course au trésor (Sélection Hardi les Gars n°49 01.01.1948) Van Straelen
- ep. 13 : La défaite de Will Sparrow (Sélection Hardi les Gars n°50 01.02.1948) Van Straelen
- ep. 14 : Feux croisés  (Hardi les Gars 22.02.1948) Van Straelen
- ep. 15 : Tempête sur l'Antarctique  (Hardi les Gars 28.03.1948) Van Straelen
- ep. 16 : De Charybde en Scylla  (Heroïca  01/1949) Van Straelen
- ep. 17 : Les loups se mangent entre eux (Heroïca  03/1949) Van Straelen

(The first three should correspond to the 44 pages by J. Away originally published in Paperino and eventually more;
ep. 4 to 6 should correspond to the Galleppini pages "redrawn" by Van Straelen;
ep.11 to 13 are clearly Will Sparrow's stories but they may be badly numbered;
ep.14 to 16 have to be confirmed then I may have missed some titles between 10 to 11. It seems there is a gap if I compare to what was published in Albi d'Oro.
ep. 11 to 15 are only 4 to 12 pages long.
ep.17 is a Will Sparrow's story and is clearly numbered episode 17.)


ITALIA Reissue + Redrawing + Follow-up?
Albi D'Oro 1946 - 1948  (32p):
34. Il pirata del cielo (Will Sparrow 1 ep.)
75. Il flagello dei mari del Sud (Will Sparrow 2 ep.)
77. Il sacro vaso dei Dasyous (Will Sparrow 3 ep.)
127. Gli evasi del Tibet (Will Sparrow 4 ep.)
132. Il re delle tenebre (Will Sparrow 5 ep.)
141. L'impero del silenzio (Will Sparrow 6 ep.)
144. La sconfitta di Will Sparrow (Will Sparrow 7 ep.)

(34 may correspond to the Paperino original pages after some reorganisation - 29p - 5s + 1p - 4s - the total number of strips does not match
75 and the first half of 77 corresponds to episodes 4 to 6 in France
First page of 77 is identical to first page of ep.6 in France
Page 17 of 77 is identical to first page of ep. 7 in France
First page of 127 is identical to first page of ep.8 in France)

75 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 30 Jan - 10:17

Raymond

avatar
Admin
Bravo ! Je pense que l'on ne peut pas faire plus.  pouce 


_________________
Et toujours ...
http://lectraymond.forumactif.com

Contenu sponsorisé


Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Revenir en haut  Message [Page 3 sur 5]

Aller à la page : Précédent  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Suivant

Permission de ce forum:
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum