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qui connait Van Straelen ?

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26 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 23 Jan - 0:17

Raymond

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Thank you very much for your traduction "   pouce 

Indeed, all the knowledge about Van Straelen concerns a period between the thirties and the beginning of the fourties. After the 2nd Worl War, this artist disappears completely from the comic's world.

"Lambiek Comicopledia" has summarized most of the informations about Van Straelen at this address :

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/v/van_straelen_j.htm

Finally, this artist still remains mysterious.



Dernière édition par Raymond le Jeu 23 Jan - 13:57, édité 1 fois


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27 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 23 Jan - 9:49

arsen33


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piccic a écrit:From what I can grasp (as I said, I am unfamiliar with most of these things), the episode published in 1940 in "Le Journal de Spirou" – "Les perles de la mer d'Oman", could be the "official" italian episode "Le perle del mare di Oman", drawn by Galeppini and which Tomaso cites as serialized on "Topolino” in 1941.
This episode should roughly correspond, according to his analysis, to Van Straelen’s “Il flagello dei mari del sud” (Albi d'Oro n.75).

Since you suspect the Albi d'Oro published more than an episode, it might either be "Les perles de la Mer d'Oman" (Episode 6) or a compilation of "Le fléau des mers du Sud"/"Le train 725 a disparu"/"Les perles de la Mer d'Oman" – you’d need both the Albi d’Oro and the french albums to determine.

As far the single "Les perles de la mer d'Oman" episode in the Galeppini version goes, I think that the signature you posted might be the extended signature of Galeppini, which at some point changed the extended versions of his signature to the famous "hallmark" "Galep" signature for which he’d became famous – and associated with Tex Willer.

You are probably right. I also came to such conclusion.

I checked a few things about the list of Will Sparrow's stories published in France. It seems clear that "Gilda l'atomique" and "La course au trésor" are Will Sparrow's stories and eventually were published in Italia in Albi d'Oro 141. "The follow up to "La Course au Trésor" is "La défaite de Will Sparrow" which appear in the next issue of Sélection Hardi les Gars.
There is two other Van Straelen's story in Hardi les Gars which may be Will Sparrow:
"Feux croisés" and "Tempête sur l'Antarctique".

While "De Charybde en Scylla"  and "Les Loup se mangent entre eux" are Will Sparrow's stories, I have some doubt about "Les mystères de l'île du singe".

About Van Straelen, I have not been able to find anything about its birth or death. At that time, I believe that he is Belgian (probably from Liège) and he was close to Blanche Dumoulin and Luc Lafnet. Luc Lafnet and Van Straelen shared some gags while Blanche Dumoulin made Spirou and Toto comics during WW2 with Van Straelen help (actually in term of drawing, it may be the opposite).
It is difficult to relate on Blanche Dumoulin words since the archives show that most of the story of her life is quite untrue... However, in a rare interview she said that she end her carrier at the end of the 40s. The strange thing is that when analysing Rob-Vel comics I come to the conclusion that she at least did the lettering for most of Rob-Vel's comics (except Babouche published in Spirou) but stop to do this after 1942/43... The one who stopped his carrier is Van Straelen, then does Blanche Dumoulin help Van Straelen to produce its comics???

28 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 23 Jan - 14:57

piccic

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So the difficulty lies in the fact some of the episodes (in french) are hard to get?

As far as identifying which italian ones correspond (and if they collected more than an episode), it should be relatively easy to find someone which owns the seven "Albi d’Oro".
I will try to track down the covers to see if they give some hints…  pirat

29 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 23 Jan - 15:32

piccic

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Here they are, the italian Albi d'Oro in their release order.
I have added n.133 as it should be the follow-up of n.132 and was missing from the list.
I will add information to the list as it comes available.  pirat 

EDIT: Removed Albi d’Oro n.133 - La giungla degli agguati, because it‘s not a Will Sparrow story.  fort 

Albi d’Oro n.34 - I pirati del cielo




Albi d’Oro n.75 - Il flagello dei mari del Sud




Albi d’Oro n.77 - Il sacro vaso dei Dasyous




Albi d’Oro n.127 - Gli evasi del Tibet




Albi d’Oro n.132 - Il re delle tenebre




Albi d’Oro n.141 - L’impero del silenzio




Albi d’Oro n.144 - La sconfitta di Will Sparrow



Dernière édition par piccic le Ven 24 Jan - 16:09, édité 1 fois

30 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Jeu 23 Jan - 15:33

piccic

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And here’s the last page of n.144, scanned by Tomaso, which puts an end to the Will Sparrow adventures in Italy – does it coincide with the last page of the french original edition ("Les Loup se mangent entre eux")?

tpturchi

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Bonjour!
alors, dans ces deux albuns il n'y a pas le character de Willy Sparrow, mais outre trois heroes, deux hommes et une femme qui s'appelent Cornil, Ernesto et Raimondo.
Je ne connais pas quand cette histoires furent pubblieè en France.

Salutations


Tomaso

PS,
Y a til quelqueun qui me peut donner cette informations. Merci in avance.

32 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 24 Jan - 15:13

piccic

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Tomaso has landed! Yippeee…
Now I have provided him with an avatar picture… Jacovitti’s Pippo, from 1947.  study 

Albi d'Oro #133 very likely has been a mistake of mine… sorry.  pig



Dernière édition par piccic le Ven 24 Jan - 17:41, édité 1 fois

33 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 24 Jan - 16:23

arsen33


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tpturchi a écrit:Bonjour!
                  alors,  dans ces deux albuns il n'y  a pas le character de Willy Sparrow, mais outre trois heroes, deux hommes et une femme  qui s'appelent Cornil, Ernesto et Raimondo.
Je ne connais pas quand cette histoires furent pubblieè en France.

Bienvenu Tomaso.

Ces deux albums "L'orda infernale" et "La Giungla degli agguati" sont-ils par Van Straelen? Parce que sinon je ne vois pas trace de titres en rapport avec cela. Peut-être que le second a un lien avec "Jungle en flammes" paru dans la collection Prouesse vers juillet 1943. Pour certains il s'agit d'un épisode d'aéroport Z mais ça ne semble pas le cas.

@Piccic: Actually this Albi d'oro #133 was joined to the last three Will Sparrow stories in a binding. This could be rather confusing.

34 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 24 Jan - 16:45

piccic

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Tomaso has just emailed me: #123 is an indian adventure, drawn by Van Straelen but not a Will Sparrow story. Tomaso has another coverless Albo d'Oro which is the follow-up of this story, and he identifies it with #133.

Here are the two covers for reference, anyway (luckily there is a sort of database on Internet, from an italian dealer):



35 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Ven 24 Jan - 18:02

piccic

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alixophile
OK, I asked a friend of mine to take a picture of the insides of Albi d'Oro nn.75, 77, 127 and 132, here they are.
As it can be seen, Van Straelen is credited as "Straelen" in the last two.







36 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Sam 25 Jan - 10:31

Raymond

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Ces BD sont beaucoup plus jolies que l'épisode d'Aéroport Z que je possède.

Pour rappel, je possède ce fascicule :



Et voici une planche de Van Straelen, provenant de ce récit complet :



The italian edition seems much more finer than the old french album that I'm showing just above.


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37 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Sam 25 Jan - 13:57

tpturchi

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Bonjour,
connaissez vous combien des planches a dessinèe Corrado Caesar de l'histoire "Les perles de la mer d'Oman"sur "Spirou en l'année 1940??
Tomaselli dit moi que elle etait 2: est juste aussi??
Merci

38 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Sam 25 Jan - 16:43

Raymond

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Il nous est impossible de te répondre. Tomaselli est une des rares spécialistes capables de se prononcer sur ce qui a été dessiné par Kurt Caesar et ce qui a été dessiné par Van Sraelen à cette époque dans le journal de Spirou. On ne peut donc que le croire !

Ce que je peux trouver facilement, ce sont les références des numéros de Spirou dans lesquels ont été publiées les histoires de Bill l'Albatros. Par contre, cette base de données (qui se nomme Bandes Dessinées Oubliées) ne précise pas toujours qui sont les dessinateurs.  deso 

Voici par exemple la page de BD oubliées qui concerne "Away" (Van Straelen n'y est pas recensé comme un dessinateur du journal Spirou).

http://www.bdoubliees.com/journalspirou/auteurs1/away.htm


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39 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Sam 25 Jan - 17:21

tpturchi

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Dear Raymon.
I write to you in english, so I am faster.
Long time ago, exactly in May 1998 ,Tomaselli sent to the "Vittorioso' friends association " two instalments from "Spirou "1940: the first and second of "The pearls of Oman sea" by Caesar, I presume!
I only presume because I did't really never see them.
Only two strips had published on the magazine "Informavitt"n°28, June 1998.
So I Thought Caesar did draw only two instalaments of that BD, but I now believe, maybe , there werw many much more.
Unfurtunately I don't hear from Tomaselli since 2013; his wife told me he preferred to talk with nobody, because he was very ill.
I hope for the best about him.

Servus


Tomaso

40 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Dim 26 Jan - 9:45

tpturchi

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Dear friends,
I've given another glimpse to all that Tomaselli wrote on "Informavitt" years ago.
Tomaselli did not say exactly how many pages of "The Oman pearls sea" Corrado Caesar made for "Spirou" in 1940.
He simply sent two of them to Renato Vermi, in those days the "boss" of "Informavitt".
May be Caesar drew many more pages??
Anyone get those 1940 "Spirou"journal numbers? So to can look at them??
I confess I never saw any number !! What the pity!!!

Sincerely yours
Tomaso

41 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Dim 26 Jan - 12:55

piccic

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alixophile
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Letting aside for a minute "Terreur su l’Ile" and the Airport Z stories, I would say that – with a bit more of informations – we could be able to put together a french-italian joint cronology of Will Sparrow.

Yesterday we had by chance (me and Tomaso) the opportuny to look at the insides of Albi d'Oro n.77 ("Il sacro vaso dei Dasyous"), and for a start I can confirm that, indeed, as hypotized by arsen33, the album contains two stories, and "Le vase sacré des Dasyous" actually begins at page 17, which corresponds to the page he posted:


(with the first strip, with the title, replaced by a strip of comics, possibly from the previous episode?)

At this point, knowing less than all of you, I suppose: may it be that the previous episode (cited by arsen as episode 6) is "Les perles de la Mer d'Oman"?
And that would be in the album version, not the original version published on Spirou which Tomaso was talking about, with the first pages drawn by Caesar.

So, we have two versions of "Les perles de la Mer d'Oman"? One drawn by Caesar/Van Stralen, and one entirely by Van Straelen?
Or do we have just the version serialized on Spirou, of which Tomaso told me no italian collected album exists?  scratch 

42 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Dim 26 Jan - 17:52

tpturchi

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Donc, j'ai appris en lisant le site posté par Rymond, que de "Spirou" Bill Albatros apparaît avec l'histoire "Les perles de la mer d'Oman" du n ° 36. La série a continué jusqu'à ce que n ° 19 de l'année suivante, 1940. Au moment de l'invasion allemande de Belgio.Poi en Août de la même année, "Spirou" a continué à sortir, mais, je crois, sans l'histoire ici dans la discussion.

43 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Dim 26 Jan - 18:01

tpturchi

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Mais, sur "Spirou" en l'an 1939, et 1940 qui a dessinè l'histoire "Les perles de la mer d'Oman»?

44 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Dim 26 Jan - 18:32

tpturchi

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Ensuite, j'ai lu dans les textes sacrés que la série de bande dessinée "Les chaiers Ulysse" a commencé à être publié à partir du 25 Mars 1941, et se terminant le 10 Août de l'année suivante.
Combien sont les bandes dessinées de "Bill Albatros"? Et l'histoire de la "perle de la mer d'Oman," est composé de 12 bandes dessinées, l'équivalent de six bandes dessinées publiée par Mondadori dans la série comique / aventure "Albuns d'or" de 1947 à 1948?

45 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Dim 26 Jan - 20:12

Raymond

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Et oui ! ce n'est pas simple !    siffle 

Voici tout de même quelques petites informations qui existent sur Van Straelen. Wink

Première info : Les Cahiers d'Ulysse contiennent 20 pages de BD. Leur longueur ne correspond donc pas à celle des albums publiés par Albi d'Oro.

Deuxième info : il existe une liste complète des récits complets appartenant à la collection des Cahiers d'Ulysse. Elle se trouve dans le site nommé "Dans la Gueule du Loup", à cette adresse :

http://www.dlgdl.com/GENPAGES/DSE_CCUY.HTM

Comme tu peux le voir, il n'y a que 2 albums de Will Sparrow. Cela fait donc 40 pages.

Troisième info : les Cahiers d'Ulysse s'arrêtent en 1942, mais le même éditeur a publié ensuite d'autres collections de récits complets qui poursuivent (ou parfois reprennent) les BD dessinées par Scolari, Molino, Away ou Van Straelen.

Il y a en particulier la collection "Sélection Prouesses" qui commence en février 1943. Elle contient des albums de Van Straelen mais c'est une histoire d'Aéroport Z. La liste se trouve sur cette page :

http://www.dlgdl.com/GENPAGES/DSE_CS1P.HTM

Il y a aussi la collection Odyssées qui commence en octobre 1943. Elle contient 8 histoires de Will Sparrow dessinées par Away (donc les premières) puis par Van Straelen. Je ne peux pas assurer que ces fascicules font 20 pages, mais c'est probable. La liste se trouve sur cette page :

http://www.dlgdl.com/GENPAGES/DSE_CODY.HTM

Il y a enfin la collection Grandes Odyssées qui prend la suite de "Odyssées" en 1947, mais je ne crois pas qu'il y ait du Van Straelen là dedans.

Ajoutons encore que selon le BDM, on trouve encore d'autres bandes de Van Straelen chez cet éditeur (qui est Marcel Daubin). Il y a la collection "A l'assaut du Ciel", datant de 1948, qui raconte la Guerre du Pacifique, la collection Capitaine Raider datant de 1946, qui n'a connu qu'un seul numéro, et enfin la collection Heroica datant de 1948, qui n'a connu que 4 numéros.

Voilà ce que le BDM nous enseigne sur Van Straelen !   jap


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46 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Dim 26 Jan - 23:02

piccic

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Gulp! Shocked
I’m beginning to think only Tomaso would be able to figure out this intricate situation… assuming we can know what was contained within each french album to compare them with the italian journals and albums, that is.

47 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Lun 27 Jan - 9:20

tpturchi

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Dear Raymond,
I thank you!!
I think to try to look for the "road" throught which Caesar, Van Straelen, Galleppini and other ones, created the Bill l'Albatros DB adventures, ahhhh, it will be like to walk along a maze!!
But never pain, little by little i hope it will be possible.

Sincerely yours,

Tomaso

48 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Lun 27 Jan - 10:22

arsen33


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OK there was a lot of discussion during the week-end.

This is what I am quite sure of:
There was 3 episodes of Will Sparrow drawn by Caesar published in Di Paperino:
"Il Pirata del Cielo"
"Dino e Dario alla caccia di Will Sparrow"
Those ones being 10 pages of 3 strips each
"Dino e Dario, gli eroi dell'aria"
This one being 24 pages of 4 pages.

These 44 pages were published in french by Le journal de Spirou as Bill l'Albatros - le pirate du ciel
After these pages, it seems that Spirou continue to titled Will Sparrow's pages as "Bill l'Albatros - le pirate du ciel" then switch to "Les perles de la mer d'Oman". But sometimes they reverted to "Bill l'Albatros - le pirate du ciel" adding to the confusion.
I Believe that "Les perles de la mer d'Oman" correspond the Mondadori publication "La perla del mar d'Oman" drawn by Galleppini. At least the pages I have seen are by Galleppini.
It seems that the Galleppini's pages were never reprinted after WW2.

About les Cahiers d'Ulysse, to my knowledge they are only 16 pages (1 page of paper for the printer which was important because of the restriction) including the cover making 15 pages of comics.
Will Sparrow's stories by Caesar are contained in 3 Cahiers d'Ulysse (later reprinted in Odyssées):
Les pirates du ciel
La chasse aux pirates
Le lac doré (in the loup database, the fact that this was a Will Sparrow story is forgotten but it is precised in the page concerning Odyssées publications)
It makes 45 pages of comics compared to the 44 pages in Spirou.
This was republished as a Albo d'oro issue in Italia. But Caesar pages were reconstructed as pages of 5 strips and so "Il pirata del Cielo" in Albo d'Oro is 32 pages but should correspond to the 3 volumes printed in France in Les Cahiers d'Ulysse.
Then Van Stralen redrawn the first 3-4 sequels probably using the Federico Pedrocchi scenario for "Les perles" intially drawn by Galleppini.

Concerning "A l'assaut du ciel" issues in France. In this journal Van Straelen published the first Capitaine Raider stories. There is no Will Sparrow in these Stories.

49 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Lun 27 Jan - 10:47

tpturchi

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Merci Arsen,

I now see environ the end of the tunnel!! Almost I can say I see the light .
Alors, the story ""Le lac Doré" was never reprinted in albun dans la seriè BD "Gli albi d'oro" by Mondadori. That was a pity, because in Italy this episode of Will Sparrow 'adventures was pratically forgotten.
So now I am going to try to look at it on "Spirou, if I will be able to make it.

Awaiting to hear from you , Thank you again !

Sincerely yours


Tomaso

50 Re: qui connait Van Straelen ? le Lun 27 Jan - 13:38

arsen33


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tpturchi a écrit:Merci Arsen,

I now see environ the end of the tunnel!! Almost I can say I see the light .
Alors, the story ""Le lac Doré" was never reprinted in albun dans la seriè BD "Gli albi d'oro" by Mondadori. That was a pity, because in Italy this episode of Will Sparrow 'adventures was pratically forgotten.
So now I am going to try to look at it on "Spirou, if I will be able to make it.

Awaiting to hear from you , Thank you again !

Sincerely yours


Tomaso

Well it depends how was rebuild Will Sparrow's story in "Il Pirata del Cielo" from Albi d'oro and in the 3 episode published in les cahiers d'ulysse.
"Il Pirata des cielo" and "Dino e Dario alla caccia di Will Sparrow" are only 20 pages (3 strips / page) for a total of 60 strips. It seems that in Italia in Albi d'Oro this was rebuild as pages of 5 strips. Then it is only 12 pages. Albi d'oro are 32 pages, then with some rebuilding the 24 lasting pages by Caesar are likely included. Is there more???
For les Cahiers d'Ulysse, I have never seen a copy or even a page from one of these issues. If it was rebuild as in Albi d'Oro, "Le lac doré" is something different (could it be the beginning of Le perla...), but if they kept the page as they were published in Spirou then Le Lac Doré should be the end of "Dino e Dario, gli eroi dell'aria" since it only make 44 pages and could then made the 3 15 pages from les cahiers d'Ulysse.

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